2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Analog Steering Wheel Interface
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TriallMan
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2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by TriallMan » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:06 am

I have 2009 Subaru Outback with new Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX
Steering wheel option with all radio remote buttons on left side.
Both car and head unit are supported in Maestro SW and I had no problems installing and flashing SW to proper firmware.
I used to be a professional car electrician and had no problems with installation and wiring diagram, really easy.

After installation all buttons on steering remote functioned properly except "mute" button was making "vol +" but it's not that tragical.
After about 15min of driving all buttons randomly change their function.
Vol+ to Vol -
Vol - to Source
And so on...
After another 15min of driving functions change again to other random options.

After car stays off for a while (30min-1hour) all functions come back to normal and then after 15min of driving everything goes same way.

I had Maestro SW replaced by seller but it did not change situation.
I have updated HU firmware from 8.04 to 8.10 (latest) and still no change.

Any other possible solutions for this problem ?

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Zack Flynn
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by Zack Flynn » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:25 pm

Did you check to make sure the 3.5mm jack was seated all the way in the WR port on the back of the radio? you should be able to feel it "click" or "snap" into place. Sometimes if there is an intermittent connection there it can cause the issues you describe.
Zack Flynn
Automotive Data Solutions
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Zachary.flynn@adsdata.ca

TriallMan
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by TriallMan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:33 pm

Checked jack connector and it was all way plugged in. To make sure I unplugged it and plugged back in. Also redid connections on power/ground/signal wires to make sure there is no week connection.

No difference

Any chance I need to use extra wire that is next to 3.5mm jack? Ground it or whatsoever?
Can it be a defective 3.5mm cable between SW and HU?
Any other suggestions?
Last edited by TriallMan on Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dara DeGrand
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by Dara DeGrand » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:16 am

You use one connection or the other on the blue plug, never both. I would check the light on the maestro; Each button press should give a different number of blinks each time you push it. I would like to know, as an example: When you press the Volume + and it's working correctly, how many blinks do you get? And when you press it and it is doing the wrong command, does it give the same number of blinks, or something different?
Dara DeGrand
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8400 Bougainville, QC
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TriallMan
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by TriallMan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:16 pm

I counted blinks before and after driving for a while and here is how it changes:
Vol + button: 2 blinks (vol +) > 3 blinks (vol -)
Vol - button: 3 blinks (vol -) > 4 blinks (source)
mute button 2 blinks (vol +) > 3 blinks (vol -)
mode button 4 blinks (source) > 5 (next track)
next button 5 blinks (next track) > 6 (prev track)
prev button 6 blinks (previous track) > 6 (prev track)

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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by JustinFerroni » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:05 pm

TriallMan wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:16 pm
I counted blinks before and after driving for a while and here is how it changes:
Vol + button: 2 blinks (vol +) > 3 blinks (vol -)
Vol - button: 3 blinks (vol -) > 4 blinks (source)
mute button 2 blinks (vol +) > 3 blinks (vol -)
mode button 4 blinks (source) > 5 (next track)
next button 5 blinks (next track) > 6 (prev track)
prev button 6 blinks (previous track) > 6 (prev track)
Unplug the maestro and meter the resistance values of each button and write them down, then drive the vehicle around like before and then take your readings again. let us know if they change.
Justin Ferroni
Technical Support Specialist- Maestro
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TF: 866.427.2999

TriallMan
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by TriallMan » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:46 am

Just in case if you don't have a diagram by hand it seems like buttons have a permanent resistance and they are not powered in any way so can't change their value.
However to eliminate impossible I'll do this test.

Here is diagram Image

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Dara DeGrand
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by Dara DeGrand » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:30 am

That's the thing; resistors do not have a permanent resistance. Age, temperature, and wear can alter their readings. The SW is giving you an inconsistent number of blinks, which means that we're not seeing the same resistance each time you push the button. That is why the function is changing. We need to meter and verify if this is the case, because the resistive ladder inside the wheel may be going bad.
Dara DeGrand
Maestro Technical Support Manager
Automotive Data Solutions Inc.
8400 Bougainville, QC
T 514.807.2888
TF 866.427.2999

TriallMan
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by TriallMan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:31 pm

Dara DeGrand wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:30 am
That's the thing; resistors do not have a permanent resistance.
However I did test because there is always a chance of wiring issue or whatever on the way to SW module.
I did not see any difference in button resistance with SW maestro disconnected after 15-20min driving. There is no resistance shown with module connected but I noticed some voltage to measure and here is result I have measured.

Test pattern

SW disconnected > measure resistance > connect module > measure voltage > drive for 15-20 min (confirm button layout fail) > measure voltage > disconnect SW module > measure resistance.

Vol + button 89.5ohm 7.28v > 0.61v 89.4ohm
Vol - button 193ohm 1.343v > 1.111v 192.9ohm
mute button 23.2ohm 0.21v > 0.177v 23.1ohm
mode button 335.2ohm 1.945v > 1.587v 335.1ohm
next button 602.3ohm 2.664v > 2.139v 602.2ohm
prev button 1,143K ohm 3.413v > 2.702v 1,142 k ohm
idle 4.692k 4.476v > 3.534v 4.690k

Basically looks like Maestro SW is not capable to properly measure resistance for a long period of time.
Just in case here is unit info
AFD512D440
P/N ADS-MSW
HW SW(32) 1.0
Date 2019-03-19
T/C XDA5AE2ADEA

TriallMan
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by TriallMan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:05 pm

I have tried to create custom custom firmware using Weblink Desktop using values that I measured but no luck. When it comes to select radio it says "No Features Found" no matter what brand or model I choose.
Is it iDatalink server issue or something else?

p.s. current firmware on my Maestro SW is ADS-SW(SI)-ALL01-AS-UN v3.1

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Dara DeGrand
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by Dara DeGrand » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:41 am

Creating a custom firmware under this case would not fix the issue. If the resistance on the buttons is consistent, but the maestro's response and detection is not, I recommend exchanging the SW under warranty through the dealer where you purchased it. It is possible the input of the module is bad.
Dara DeGrand
Maestro Technical Support Manager
Automotive Data Solutions Inc.
8400 Bougainville, QC
T 514.807.2888
TF 866.427.2999

TriallMan
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by TriallMan » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:10 am

Well as I mentioned in the begining it was replaced once already with same issue. Is there any way to figure out if SW module is not original?

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Zack Flynn
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Re: 2009 Subaru Outback (NO Navi) with Pioneer DMH-c2500NEX randomly changes button function

Post by Zack Flynn » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:38 pm

When you swapped out the SW, did you swap the harness out as well? What type of physical connection did you make to the wires in the vehicle on the SW1/2/feed wires, and accessory and ground?
Zack Flynn
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